Ed Bradley at Larry King on 02-04-2004

transcripts

CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Interview With Ed Bradley

Aired February 4, 2004 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KING: The Jackson interview. How did it happen? BRADLEY: You know, the Michael Jackson interview is an interview that we have been working on for more than a year. Last February I was out at Neverland, we had been working on it for some months at that time. I went out with my crews, producer, associate producer, sat down with Michael, just the two of us in a room. Left everybody outside and talked for about half an hour. KING: Months ago? BRADLEY: This is last February, almost a year ago. And Michael said, fine. I'm going to trust you. And he told me how his trust had been betrayed by other journalists. And I just said, look, you know me, you know my work. If you want to do this, fine, if not, I understand. And he said, I'm going to trust you and go upstairs and get ready for the interview. His guys told me that could take an hour and a half to two hours because he'll have to get made up, his clothes. When I talked to him he had on a pajama top, he had pants on, but he had a pajama top on. KING: This is the day of the interview or months before. BRADLEY: This is in February. We were going to do this interview that day. KING: I see. BRADLEY: I say to my guys, bring in the camera gear, set up and he'll be down in an hour or so. And, as I was told later, when he was just about made up and dressed, someone came in with a phone and said, you've got a call from Marlin Brando. Brando told him that the deposition, which had been sealed in 1992 from the first case when he was accused of child molestation. KING: And settled. BRADLEY: Settled so that it would be kept secret. Brando told him that that deposition had been released. It was on the Internet and it would be all over the world by tomorrow and it would be in the tabloids in the United States the next day. Michael Jackson, we never saw him again. He didn't say I'm not going to do the interview, he just disappeared. KING: Someone came and told you. BRADLEY: We sat there for hours waiting. It was his people. Mark Geragos just started at the head of his legal team at that time. KING: This was before the charges were brought, now, way before. BRADLEY: Oh, yes. In fact, the kid who is now charging him and his mother were there that day. KING: Really? BRADLEY: We sat in the kitchen having coffee and doughnuts and sodas and his mother and the kids said they were willing to go on television to say what a great person Michael Jackson was. KING: Wow. Hold it right there. And Brando was wrong, right? BRADLEY: Well no, because the deposition wasn't... KING: Was it released? BRADLEY: It was released. And it was all over the tabloids the next day. KING: Oh, was it. We'll be right back with more. This is a fascinating story with Ed Bradley. Don't go away. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRADLEY: As we sit here today, do you still think that it's acceptable to share your bed with children? MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: Of course. Of course. Why Not? If you're going to be a pedophile, if you're going to be Jack the Ripper, if you're going to be a murderer, it's not a good idea. That I'm not. That's how we were raised. And I didn't sleep in the bed with the child, even if it I did, it's OK. I slept on the floor. I gave the bed to the child. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JACKSON: They manhandled me very roughly. My shoulder is dislocated literally. It's hurting me very badly. I'm in pain all the time. See this arm? This is as far as I can reach it. Same with this side over here. BRADLEY: Because of what happened at the police station? JACKSON: Yes. (END VIDEO CLIP) KING: We're back with Ed Bradley. All right, and then what happened? BRADLEY: We sat there and he just never showed up. By that night I went back to Los Angeles. We went back out the next day and talked to them and it just never happened. So, it never went away completely. It was always there. And then when it surfaced again after these charges, he decided that he wanted to talk to me. KING: He contacted you? BRADLEY: We were in contact with Mark Geragos. And they said, OK. We didn't talk to Michael directly. They said, fine, come out on Wednesday. This is a day before Christmas. So, I had my Christmas vacation plans and they just went out the window and I flew to Los Angeles and went to the hotel where we were supposed to interview him and they said this is going to happen at 3:00 and then they said 4:00 and then 5:00 and then 6:00 and at 7:00 they said, well it will happen tomorrow. KING: Here we go again. BRADLEY: It was Christmas day. So Christmas day we went out and set up again and then, again, it was a long wait through the day and late in the afternoon, early evening, Michael came into the room. He was made up and dressed for the interview and he was very, he is very soft spoken. He was on the surface very considerate of everyone else in the room. Makes eye contact, says hello to members of the crew, waves at everybody and sits down. KING: Personable. BRADLEY: Yes. But then he's also checking to see how he looks in the monitor. He is a performer, has he has been all of his life. KING: Right there. The story that appears in the "New York Times" is he says, first we have to make this deal. We need the money more on a live television show. BRADLEY: Never happened. KING: Nothing like that ever -- "New York Times" story was completely wrong. BRADLEY: Completely wrong. Completely wrong. The "New York Times" story which was based on something that happened a year ago in February when we were at Neverland that this person said, we have to have more money for Michael. KING: That was then. BRADLEY: The quote was put in my mouth in the "New York Times" story saying I said, don't worry, we'll take care of it. Who said I said that? The person they attributed that quote to was described as a disgruntled former Jackson associate, unnamed, who felt that he was owed money. Now, that's not a very credible source. What bothered me was that they never contacted me directly to say, did you say that? KING: Never called you? BRADLEY: They called -- by the time they were ready to write this story we had finished the interview and I had gone on vacation. They called the CBS PR people and said, can we talk to Bradley? Bradley's on vacation. They never said, here's a quote. This is what they're saying that Ed Bradley said, how does he respond to that? KING: Back to a year ago, a year ago back in February, when they didn't do it, did he say at that time, I want more money? BRADLEY: No. KING: Did he say, I'm doing the special, you must run it? BRADLEY: No, this was a year before the special. KING: The special hadn't even been thought of? BRADLEY: No, the special hadn't been thought of. Maybe it had been thought of, but I didn't know about it. KING: Money was never mentioned? BRADLEY: Money was not a factor. What happened a year ago was that when Marlon Brando told him that the deposition was being made public he freaked out and he didn't want to see anyone. KING: So when you read the story, what did you think? BRADLEY: I said, it's a lie. I never said that. Who was the person who said I said that? Name him. KING: Were you shocked that the "New York Times" ran that? I mean, here's a pillar of journalism. BRADLEY: You know, I expected more from them, frankly. I mean, if I had a quote from an anonymous source for a story I'm doing at "60 Minutes," I couldn't use that quote without contacting the person who's quoted in that story in saying, this is what they say about you. We couldn't do that. KING: To your knowledge, is there any content between CBS Entertainment and CBS News where Entertainment could say do us a quid pro quo? BRADLEY: No, there is no quid pro quo. There was no quid pro quo with Michael Jackson. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) CBS did not pay for the interview. CBS did not sweeten the pot. In other words, CBS did not say, OK, we paid you so much with a special, do the interview and we'll pay you more for the special. KING: Never happened. BRADLEY: Never happened. Now, was there someone there from CBS Entertainment? Yes, because he knew Michael Jackson, having done the special with him and knew Michael Jackson's people and he was a liaison with us, but he had nothing to do with the interview. KING: Were they not going to run this special unless he did the interview? BRADLEY: I don't think they were going to run the special unless he answered the questions. Now it was his choice as to where he chooses, which forum he chooses to answer the questions. Now, would they prefer that he do it on "60 Minutes?" You bet. KING: Back to last February when you met the mother and the kid, what did you think when you heard it was that mother and that kid? BRADLEY: I was stunned because they were there to tell me that day what a great person he was. KING: Were you going to put them on camera? BRADLEY: We hadn't gone that far. KING: Might you have? BRADLEY: I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't know. The kid was in the documentary that the BBC -- not BBC, but the English program did. I forget his name now. KING: But you were shocked that the kid -- that was the kid? BRADLEY: I was shocked that that was the kid because both the child and his mother were praising Michael and were sitting there in his kitchen eating and saying what a great person he was. KING: What's your read on Michael Jackson? BRADLEY: Michael lives in a world, I think his main residence is aptly named Neverland. It's a fantasy world. I mean, I'm sitting outside waiting for this interview that never happened. I hear this noise and I look over my left shoulder and it's an elephant and a trainer walking the elephant. I'm looking out at the lake in front of me and there's a geyser at the other end of the lake and spawns, you know, gliding across the landing. I look over here there's a little waterfall and I see statues of pink flamingos and then I see the flamingos move, they're real. And then I hear a half hour later to my right and I look over my shoulder, here comes another trainer with a camel. All the time there's a train going around and there's a train station that's as big as your house. And it's all lit up with lights. And on other parts of the property, there's other animals. There is a ferris wheels, merry-go-rounds, and then there are all of these Disney-type programs being played on outdoor speakers. It's -- he lives in a world that is still a child's world. He never had a childhood. The one thing that struck me that he said was that when I was a kid and I would pass a playground and see kids out there playing, I had to go into the studio. From the time he was 7, 8 years old, he's been the breadwinner for his family. So he now has re-created this world of fantasy where he can be a child. Well, that's not a real world. It's not a real world, but it's his world. KING: Sad or what? BRADLEY: I think it's sad because it's not real. And I think, in some ways, Michael is out of touch with reality, and I don't think he has people around him who can say, Michael, can't do this. Michael, you can't do that. Michael, you can't say this. You know, I think he has been so big for so long that he can do whatever he wants to do. KING: We'll be right back with more of Ed Bradley. We'll be including your phone calls. Ed Bradley, the co-editor of "60 Minutes." Ed had quintuple bypass surgery. We're going to ask him about that, too. Don't go away. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRADLEY: What is your response to the allegations that were brought by the district attorney in Santa Barbara, that you molested this boy? JACKSON: Totally false. Before I would hurt a child, I would slit my wrists. I would never hurt a child. It's totally false. I was outraged. I could never do something like that. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: We're back with Ed Bradley. We just saw the scene of Michael Jackson at his arraignment. What did you make of that? BRADLEY: Well, he certainly recovered from the time I interviewed him, when he said he could barely move his arm. I mean, he jumped up on the car and did a little dance there. I don't think you'll see that again. I think that's the first time that someone said, you can't do this. You can't have a party after this. KING: Did you suspect -- did you come away with any opinion? BRADLEY: I came away not convinced that he is a pedophile. I think that that's something that only a jury can decide. They have to look at the evidence, and I haven't seen all the evidence. But I came away not convinced that he is a pedophile, but convinced that he doesn't make sound decisions. That having already been accused in 1992, got to be extra careful about what it is that you do and not allow yourself to be put in a position where you could be accused again. KING: But here's someone who makes sound business decisions, right? In fact, some people said he's kind of a genius. BRADLEY: Well, there are some people who say he doesn't make sound business decisions. There are some people who say that not that he's broke, but that he has trouble funding his operation. If you look at his sources of income, he doesn't make the money from touring that he used to make, because he doesn't tour. He doesn't make the money from CD sales that he used to make, because his CDs sell only a fraction of what they sold before. I don't think he makes the money from his publishing business. I mean, he owns the Beatles catalogue and all that, because, my understanding is, that part of that has been put up as collateral for loans. KING: Do you like him? BRADLEY: I don't dislike him. I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't -- I feel sorry for him more than anything else. I feel sorry that he didn't have more of a normal life. And that somewhere along the line, as an adult, someone didn't, you know, as we used to say, smack him upside the head and say, Michael, you can't do this. KING: Jermane has mentioned the black aspect. And you're a black journalist. Do you see any of that in this? BRADLEY: No, I don't, no. KING: We're going to take a break, come back. We'll go to your calls for Ed Bradley. I am going to ask him about his surgery, same surgery I had many moons ago. He just had it. Look pretty good, by the way... BRADLEY: Thank you very much. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/04/lkl.01.html so, EVEN New York Times IS NOT A CREDIBLE SOURCE I PREFER TO BELIEVE MJ When Bradley was at Neverland, so were the Arvizo kids and their mother. They talked about how wonderful Michael was!